Yummy Software

Hi Jason,

I figure these few are semi-painless and would help with usability and my sanity.  :)

1. Browse History dropdown. Can you change it to show the full path for each dir? With the way it shows right now, it is not intuitive as to which child dir belongs to which parent dir. For example, mine right now shows:

Users
nhd_sched_test
www
ud
php
nhd_states_php
www
php_files

However if those displayed like this, it would be much better from a usability standpoint:
/Users
/Users/nhd_sched_test
/Users/nhd_sched_test/www
/Users/nhd_sched_test/www/ud
/Users/nhd_sched_test/www/ud/php
/Users/nhd_states_php
/Users/nhd_states_php/www
/Users/nhd_states_php/www/php_files

2. I prefer the window to be as small as possible. However when I choose "Small Icons" for the Toolbar, the set of round silver buttons like Transfer, Stop, Pause, Refresh, Info - do not have a small version apparently so they stay large. (Note - if this is only an issue in the beta version, then disregard this one).

3. Would be nice if using "Small Icons" in the toolbar would also apply to the trash can icon so that i can make the lower part of the window smaller. This might also mean being able to resize the little status window at the bottom, but that'd be nice too.
thanks. really diggin it so far.
Jim

or even better for #3 - any way to just hide that entire piece of the window? the part with the status window and trash can?

I support your request number 1 about the history dropdown, it isn't that useful at present.

For the toolbar I suggest you use "text only" (+small text) which is what I use. Not only do you get a much smaller toolbar but you don't have to remember what all those icons mean.  I have never been a fan of icons: I believe that in some software they are a programmer's excuse for multi-language support: "if we just put up some icon (users will eventually learn what our little picture means) then we don't have to have different versions for different countries" -- you see the same thing on consumer products.  Anyway I wander ... Yummy does have multi-language support of course.

In fact I often hide the toolbar altogether as all options have keyboard equivalents.

yeah good point. Text is what I am using now since the one set of icons did not have a smaller version. Usually smaller icons take up less horizontal space than text. But in this case, I'm with you.

As for Browse History - Woohoo! Glad I got another supporter.   ;D

What do you say Jason? Reasonable request?

hey, sorry I didn't pick this up quicker...

I have another request for the small version of those icons, but as spacific said, if you're really after saving as much space as possible then the text only option is the way to go.

I also have a few requests already to provide a small version of the bottom status area. I'll get to this as soon as I can.

For the history menu, I'm not convinced - if you have really long paths then the menu will look awful. One thing you can do right now is to leave your mouse pointer over one of the menu entries for up to a second, then you'll see a help tag appear - this shows the full path. Once a help tag is displayed, you can move your mouse over the other menu items and get the full path help tag for each one immediately. Isn't that good enough?

History menu: I hadn't realised that!  The first view of the list put me off.  That does help I think, I'll give it a go for a while.  See what jimlooney thinks....

Ok, that's cool. I didn't realize it would do that. I'd say it's an either/or for me. I used to really like having the full path showing when I used MacSFTP (I tend to jump around all over my server, currently with 109 Users dirs on it). But I reckon it'll give me a second to rest my hands.  :)

consider my requests resolved. 

Here is what I was thinking as far as making the window even more minimalist.

Here's what it currently looks like:

(NO LINKS ALLOWEDacuitymarketingNO LINKS ALLOWED/Current.jpg)

It would be nice if in Preferences, the user could turn off enough stuff to make it look like:

(NO LINKS ALLOWEDacuitymarketingNO LINKS ALLOWED/Suggested2.jpg)

or even better:

(NO LINKS ALLOWEDacuitymarketingNO LINKS ALLOWED/Suggested.jpg)

Crikey, that IS minimalist  :D

How would you navigate to the parent of the Users folder without the directory popup menu? I know there is a keyboard shortcut, but most people want to use the mouse.

The problem with having no status area at all is you have no indication that the connection is doing anything... for example if I were transferring a file, or even just refreshing a directory listing, I wouldn't know it.

Thoughts?

Well, since you asked... =)

I agree that a status bar is necessary, but it doesn't make sense to me to have a trash there. From a usability perspective, it makes more sense to not differentiate it from other file operations, i.e. File > Edit, File > Edit with..., File > Delete. Using this logic, it makes more sense for me to have the trash icon up by my textmate icon in the toolbar. (Ya, I know I can already do that, but no point having two.) And then, once that bottom trash is removed, that status area can more closely resemble the status bar of many other applications: a single line of information.

Note: I'm not suggesting changing its look. I like the inner bevel and the different colour, it's pretty. It shouldn't resemble other apps in that sense. I'd just make it narrower.

There seems to be some confusion (mine?) here between status bar (which is at the top, and can be hidden) and the "status area" at the bottom where various messages flash up briefly. The trash icon is not in the status bar. I'm all for the minimalist approach, the smaller things can be made the better as I tend to have Yummy open all the time at left of screen and then want to work with various graphic or text software before uploading or whatever. In fact I wish the windows could be made narrower than they are at present; the minimum width seems to be about 225 pixels. In particular I wish the bookmarks window could be tiny, just showing the list of server names and not including the wasted area to the left of the icons; I move the window partly offscreen to try and reduce its real estate.

I never look at the status bar or status area. I know when files are being transferred: either they arrive, or the dock icon changes. And often when refreshing a directory the message is so fleetingly displayed that I often miss it anyway.

Okay, now we're cookin!

So who else wants to trash the Trash?
Anyone think we would be mad to remove it?

spacific - the debate is about the status area at the bottom which shows the transfer information, etc. The status bar at the top of the window is only available in the Mac OS X 10.3.9 version and not available in 10.4 and later because that information is integrated into the file listings themselves.

Haha this is excellent. I opened a can o' worms.

Yes, I would vote for the trash can icon to be gone from the status area. In fact, as you can see, I don't even have use for the status area. I use the transfer completion sounds to notify me when something is done or it has errored. I typically drop files on the window and go do other things like hit iChat or Mail while the files are being transferred. I hear the "BING" and I know I can go back to what I was doing.

So I think it would be great if in Preferences one could just choose to hide the Status Area. Or (as justG mentioned), remove the trash icon and make the status area much smaller than it is now. Or do both of these things and make lots of people happy at the same time. :)

As for navigating (in my super minimalist window), I have my bookmarks set to initially login into the root dir of the machine, so that way I use Browse History for navigation (as well as Go To Directory..). I wouldnt be opposed to leaving those buttons/dropdown at the top - it doesn't bother me as bad as the large status area at bottom.

there's my 2 cents.
Jim

My fault. The status area at the bottom of the window is the area to which I was referring. Mail, web browers, every other application I've used that displays information there calls that space the status bar. I was incorrectly using the terms interchangeably for Yummy, calling the status space on top of the window precisely... nothing. =)

[Edit] Well, I've just read Jason's response and realised that I'm calling the top space nothing because I'm not seeing it. I'm not completely daft, then. =)

IMO, the "trash can" icon/function seems to belong in the top of the window toolbar. As such, it can be added or removed at the choice of the user.

So, the trash seems to be disposed of :)

How about being able to minimize the status area on the fly?

(The fly has a status area too?  :D)

Maybe you need a survey: who deletes by
    1.  dragging onto the trash icon?
    2.  using Cmd-Delete?
    3.  using the file menu?
    4.  using the context pop-up menu?
    5.  using the toolbar "delete"?

to gauge how important having an icon is.  I know I see quite a few Mac users at work (those that are not big on understanding or remembering alternative methods for basic operations) who delete Mac files by dragging to the dock trash. They also do weird things like double-click icons in the dock (just as well the system copes!), always click in every input box in an on-line form (you can tell them to use Tab but next time they have forgotten), and when a click or double-click on a web link doesn't produce instant results, they click again.

I presume the average ftp user is more "aware", but I could be wrong.

OK to trash the trash from the status area if it's possible to have it in the toolbar. (Answer to the survey is 1 and 4, depending of the mood).

Not OK to minimize too much the status bar. I can't hear a "bing" as I'm working on an open space office where, of course, computers' sound is turned off. And maybe I'm getting old, remembering with a sigh what was the revolution of Mac and icons in a world of black and green screens, with lines of command to add a single word in a phrase (something like 25 years ago, if you ask), but I'm using icons a lot. Synchronized navigation or not, see/hide invisible files, edit with..., encoding mode, information and authorizations, preview, etc. All of these icons Im using several times a day.

Ya, "delete" can be added to the toolbar already by using "Customize Toolbar". So that way you would select your files, then click "delete" in the toolbar to trash them as opposed to clicking (or dragging to) the trash icon.

Alternatively, did everyone know that you can drag your files to the Dock trash icon for a delete action? That plus having delete on the Yummy toolbar seems to really make the trash icon in the Yummy status area obsolete.

And I still think an option in Prefs to hide/show the status area would be the best route for all.

and honestly, when I am moving a large number of files, I do prefer Yummy's status area rather than a separate Transfers window. So there would be times I'd want to see it. So in fact (Jason is about to be ready to strangle me) it might be nice if there were a small show/hide button for the status area like there is for the Preview Window.   ;D

Doubtful, he's a pacifist.

posting here again so as to refresh this topic (or actually, several ideas floating around in this one).

I actually think, once the trash can is gone from the status area at bottom of window, is there a reason for the status window? I mean, when you push files, if you maintain the funcitonality where there upload progress window comes out of hiding below the window (see screengrab), then the status window area is kind of useless right?

So if you always had that thing pop out underneath the window (or toggled via the icon button), then the status area (the part that says "Jobs queued" in this screengrab) kind of becomes redundant. This could also save some processing time by removing code needed to update that area.

(NO LINKS ALLOWEDaw1.acuwebNO LINKS ALLOWED/yummy.jpg)

If people really like the progress bar, what about allowing a progress bar in the status bar (see second screen grab below) along with text status of the file currently being uploaded (or "Jobs queued" if multiple files).

(NO LINKS ALLOWEDaw1.acuwebNO LINKS ALLOWED/yummy2.jpg)

Yep, good to raise this again to remind Jason there's work to be done when he finishes sunning himself  8)

You have my vote: as minimalist as possible.  Get rid of that whole status/trashcan area, maybe have a (tiny) trashcan somewhere with other icons (if you must), and perhaps a one-line status bar/message as you suggest.  I have started having the transcript area open at the bottom of the window. I have it quite small but enough for me to see what's going on. Because of that I don't need the status info at all.

I'm done 8)

Strangely enough, not so long ago the status areas looked pretty much like Jim's mockup (the one line status), but it looked horrible, so I replaced it with what we have now.

I had already been thinking along the lines of a toggle feature, to hide/show the status area via a button of some kind. So I don't have any grounds for strangling anyone ;)

That said, and as Jim mentioned, it seems that the status area is becoming a little meaningless, especially with the advent of the recursive batch transfers feature. It's fine for a single transfer, or synch, for example, but unless the status area summarizes all the activity in the queue (which could be a nightmare) , it's not terribly useful. So maybe it's time to think about removing it completely, as Jim is suggesting. Although, this would mean I would have to find a different way to convey when Yummy is doing non-transfer things...

Thoughts?

Actually, I like the queue drawer with each file having it's own progress tracked. Like any drawer (should be), it can be toggling on and off. And stay the way one last had it set. That should satisfy the "need to know" guys and the "minimal is the only way" folks.

Besides, I rather our guy Jason sun himself rather than moon others.

Oh no, I wasn't referring to the Queue drawer. That's definitely not going away!

I meant the Status Area at the bottom of the window, where 'Jobs queued' is displayed when the Queue drawer is showing.

Oh, now I see (it was about 4,975 degrees yesterday and brain activity was a tad feverish at times)... yes it is redundant!

Cooly. Since the status messages are usually one line ("Disconnected", "Jobs Queued") etc., would it work to just have it as a true status bar area (like a browser does) where those messages just show in the bottom frame of the window? I guess I should do more mockups, as I find it hard to describe, hehe.

Yup. Something along those lines is what I had in mind.